echoes_in_the_attic's Recent Posts

I thought this was strange. Aalto reports 5.8 ms of latency (working at 44.1). Most plug-in instruments I have no not have latency (none reported) except Alchemy and Addictive Keys which report 1.5 ms. All the effects I have are usually no latency or under 1ms.

5.8 ms seems quite high for an instrument. Is this correct? Why does it have such high latency?


edit: apparently Aalto adds twice your plug-in buffer in latency, thus tripling your plug-in latency!

Oh sorry, I never realized you had written another post. Been a while since I checked in.

To answer your question though, I was using a 128 buffer setting in Studio One, so that makes sense that I was seeing Aalto reporting the equivalent of 256 extra samples of latency (in addition to plug-in buffer).

So that's interesting - Aalto adds latency of the next power of 2? I've never heard of a plug-in adding extra latency based on the DAW buffer. I mean, all plug-ins have in inherent minor latency of the buffer size, and some have a minor extra buffer added on top like 64 samples or so (Alchemy, addictive keys, 2caudio B2 to name a few), but adding the next power of 2 can actually be quite significant, even more than a static 256 buffer that I thought it was adding. If someone is mixing a track, using a high buffer to save cpu like 512 (not that high really), then Aalto would have a 1024 buffer as well! This could seriously cause some mayhem in Ableton Live.

I hope for V2 you can have Aalto not add extra latency. The only other synth that I know of that adds additional latency (beyond the plug-in buffer) is Alchemy, which as I said is only 64 samples.
So there's my official V2 request. No more variable/huge latency buffer. :)

I've never used the AU. I only use the VST. I haven't had issues, I just see the latency of the VST in Studio One. 6ms could conceivably add to bad timing in Live in some situations though. And it's quite high for an instrument so it would be great if that could be improved.

It's also interesting that 5.8*44.1 = 255.8 (so latency is 256 samples)

Studio One's latency reporting is only one decimal place so the 5.8 isn't exact. So I'm sure it's a latency of 256 samples. So that's one of those binary rounded up type numbers ;) Maybe the whole latency isn't needed?

Unfortunately Ableton Live doesn't compensate plug-in latency in automation or tempo-based plug-ins like beatrepeat etc. so any tempo information gets off by the amount of a plug-ins latency.

I am on OSX 10.8 Mountain Lion and I use Ableton Live and Studio One 2. Ableton Live does not tell you what a plug-ins latency is, but it is affected by it. Studio One is handy because it displays a plug-ins reported latency in the status bar at the bottom. For Aalto it is 5.8 ms.

I thought it was strange because the highest I've seen from a plug-in instrument previously was about 1/4 of that (1.5ms). I stay away from plug-ins with latency in Live, the highest effect latency I have is 0.2 ms.

Thanks for looking into it. I know plug-ins don't always report their latency correctly. It would great to find out that Aalto was just reporting it wrong!

One of the most useful, but rarely talked about features of a synth plug-in is the ability to automate mod sources, be it a drop down window in a mod matrix or virtual patch cables (Patch cables are really just a visual representation of modulation to and from). The biggest reason I like this, is because then you can control modulation routing from hardware, like novation automap, which required exposed host parameters (also NI KOre, Maschine, Ableton devices and other host mapping systems).

Want to see how cool it is to map out modulation patch cables? Check out U-He ACE. For each destination's mod source parameter, as you turn a knob, the patch cables switch around to every mod source. Similarly in other synths like Zebra, sylenth1, ElectraX, Galdiator, Poly-Ana and many others, you can map/automate the mod sources (there just aren't cables moving all over the place when you do).

I'd love to see this in Aalto! It would be great to have full hardware control from my Novataion Remote SL.

Oh so you're saying that in aalto every source can be routed to every destination at the same time? I figured there would be some maximum number of cables. Like how a mod matrix normally has 10 to 20 pairs. So in the the case of 20 mod pairs, that would be 40 automatable parameters (20 source and 20 destination). But you can actually have 434 modulation pairings? Geez, I can't see anyone ever needing more than about 20, or even 10 for that matter.

Oh right, there isn't just one modulation per destination. That does rule a simple mod source parameter. In Aalto it's more like a modulation matrix. There are as many source/destination pairs as you want. Except I guess there is only one mod amount parameter per destination in Aalto rather than an amount for each modulation pair.

Many of the synths I mentioned in my post allow automation of the source and destinations in the mod matrix. So this way also allows any number of destinations and sources (or at least as many matrix slots as there are). So the parameters are labelled as something like Mod Source 1, Mod Dest 1, Mod source 2 etc. You coul do something like for Aalto and just expose the parameter names however they are ordered internally. By order of instantiation I guess?

As for midi, I find it far less useful for so many reason. Midi communication is typically one way. But when dealing with host parameters, it's easy to set up two way communication in systems like novation auto map, Kore/Maschine or something like an APC40 with Ableton's device configuration.